Creationism, Evolution, 2008 Presidential Campaign
(Top Posts - Distance From Belief
in theism - 090608)

These topics were addressed in the following
thread prior to the 2008 election:

McCain's V.P. candidate Sarah Palin is a Creationist

- - -

Well, what does that tell us? Simply put, that
is more or less an introduction to her religious
mindset. She wants the religion of creationism
taught in science classes. She wants to end the
separation of church and state (for that would
have to occur in order for the religion of crea-
tionism to be taught in science classes), whether
she admits it or not.

As for creationism, which version would she
endorse as the 'state religion', and would she
block all non-christian and non-Jewish versions,
similar to the way she tried to get a librarian fired
for refusing to ban books that she didn't like?

Of course, once you introduce religion into a
science classroom, you open the door to dis-
belief and doubt being discussed. Not sure that's
a door she would allow to be opened, and if not,
I wonder how she'd keep it nailed shut (see her
failed book banning efforts above).

So, read the following for a taste of what her
creationist religion might consist of, and for what
her creationist religion would not consist of:

- - -
What is Creationism?
  http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wic.html
- - -

- - -

Someone wrote:

> Interesting how the left is so quick to call out the
> intolerance of Americans for Islam while they show
> absolutely no tolerance for Christianity.

I suspect you are interpreting selective
views, there, as it would be difficult to
assign that attribute in a general way to
"the left".

- - -

Someone wrote:

> I do not believe in any religion.

Do you believe in God?

- - -

Someone wrote:

> That is my choice. But I have a deep respect
> for people of faith, any faith.

Any faith? Does that include devil-worship,
or Nazism or, well, the faith of bin Laden
and his cronies? I somehow doubt that, but
would submit that the respect you have is
more or less leveraged off of the manner in
which Americans have, by and large, due to
the efforts of the 'faith'ful, been instructed
to have a 'hands off' position on criticizing
religious 'faith', from a very early age.

I think if you examine the nature of religious
faith, from an objective, rational, and dis-
tanced stance, with all of its unsubstantiated
claims, all of its inducements for mental and
emotional slavery, all of its promotion of
generational brainwashing of innocents, and
all of its excitement over harming so-called
'bad guys', your position of respect would not
bear that scrutiny.

- - -

Someone wrote:

> It takes a certain amount selflessness to
> be devout and I admire that.

Selflessness is inherent in everyone, regard-
less of efforts of the 'faith'ful to get its fol-
lowers to selfishly promote their particular
religious faith, and to disrespect the beliefs
of all the non-faithful.

- - -

Someone wrote:

> I also understand the extremes that some people
> go to for their religions.

Which would counter your position of respect,
would it not?

- - -

Someone wrote:

> Creationism is a religious belief.

Indeed.

- - -

Someone wrote:

> It takes tremendous faith to believe
> that a god created life on earth.

I did, after 8 years of brainwashing. Wouldn't
call it 'tremendous'. Would call it a result of
being brainwashed to believe that, though.
By the way, after I grew up, I stopped believ-
ing that.

- - -

Someone wrote:

> The left wants everyone to believe the
> evolution of life was an accident without
> understanding that those who believe in
> a god believe he created everything.

He? Some believe 'she' created everything.
Some believe in multiple gods. Some be-
lieve in "the triad". You see, when it comes
to religion, the beliefs, including their ver-
sions of 'creation', are quite different from
one another, though they all reside in the
nature of homo sapiens, which is to fear
death, to want a better life to be a reality,
here, and hereafter, and the propensity of
most to cling to what we're taught is 'holy'
or 'true', from a very early age.

As to whether or not any of the religious
claims about such matters are true, I would
submit that children are by and large ill-
prepared to make such judgements, and
that subjecting them to such beliefs at
young ages is both an immoral and cor-
rupting influence that many never recover
from.

- - -

Someone wrote:

> The only debate is at what point he intervened
> to get it started.

That is not the only debate.

- - -

Someone wrote:

> Mocking those who believe in creationism is
> mocking their belief in God.

See the comments you replied to in my orig-
inal post above. No mocking, there.

As for belief that a magic being killed almost
every human on earth (Noah's flood), my posi-
tion is not one of mocking, but would, instead,
be one casting dispersion on calling God a
God of love and in the same breath calling for
me to believe that killing almost every mother,
father, daughter, son, baby, aunt, uncle, niece,
and nephew on the planet was a good thing
to do.

That so-called event, by the way, didn't occur,
just as there are no '4 corners' of the earth, just
as a significant part of the ancient so-called
'holy' documents is demonstratively untrue.

You see, when it comes to religion, you err
when you're called to treat it as 'holy' or spe-
cial or 'the only hope' or any other positive
when you don't examine the entirety of their
claims, and when you don't reject and oppose
or at the very least feel distanced from all
the untruths and anti-humanism inherent
therein (IMO).

- - -

Someone wrote:

> Like the discrimination of the left against the wealthy
> and hard working, the soft bigotry of the left against
> christianity goes unnoticed and unchecked.  In the
> meantime, the are convinced that global warming is
> man-made without any hard evidence simply because
> manbearpig tells them so.

Well, this 'left' you speak of, sounds like its
a concocted demon of the right (and need-
less to say, that anti-'left' mindset is one of
the many anti-human stances promoted by
ancient religions -- see the christian bible
for a clue).

- - -

Someone wrote:

> All the more reason to vote for McCain and her.

Haven't taken this information and checked
on it yet, but on Friday night's Tonight Show,
MSNBC commentator Chris Mathews had
the following to say about her position on
evolution:

"... she doesn't believe in evolution ..."
-- Chris Matthews

- - -

While that doesn't exactly convey which crea-
tionist position she supports, that does con-
vey that her stance may differ from the follow-
ing stance taken by many christians, including
the Cathoic church.

Now, not sure what Chris Matthews is basing
his statement on, so until I reserach that, I
wouldn't want to put too much weight on her
position differing from the following, as chris-
tians generally are open to all sorts of theistic
interpretations that inject God into the picture,
whatever their individual creationist stance is:

- - -
What is Creationism?
  http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wic.html
- - -

Excerpt:

...

Theistic Evolution

Theistic Evolution says that God creates through
evolution. Theistic Evolutionists vary in beliefs
about how much God intervenes in the process.
It accepts most or all of modern science, but it
invokes God for some things outside the realm
of science, such as the creation of the human soul.
This position is promoted by the Pope and taught
at mainline Protestant seminaries.

...

- - - end excerpt - - -