Discussing God doubts/disbelief
with a believer in God ...
(Top Posts - Distance From Belief
in theism - 022605)

... about quite a few perspectives on why doubt
and disbelief in the motif of religious faith is pre-
ferable to blindly following what most children are
induced into believing before they're old enough
to know any better ...

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In a recent discussion, a believer in God wrote ...
> As I said, if you're not looking, you won't find it.
> When you do, it's as plain as day. It's something
> you see, feel, deeply understand at a soul level.
> It's something that is hard to explain if you don't
> seek it. As I said, it's like being behind the door,
> with God. I know Him. You may not because
> you have not opened that door.

To which I responded ...

The door is open for every child, and typically, that's
all a child knows, is God myths (along with other myths
of a society), while growing up. The door of doubt and
disbelief? The goal of the church is to keep that door
shut with a wide array of techniques, all entailing brain-
washing of youth and continued brainwashing reinforce-
ment towards adults.

That believer in God also wrote ...
> I've tried to put it in the most simple terms because it
> really is that simple. It is an understanding... but it's like
> trying to explain a good book or a movie. Until you see
> it for yourself, until you experience it, no explanation will
> be sufficient.

To which I responded, in detail ...

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Words Aren't Enough?

Sounds like something a follower of a cult would say.
Exactly. In those very words.

But if all you have are words, and words aren't enough,
then aren't you missing something really critical, like
a superbeing actually existing rather than your just
believing a superbeing exists?

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Most are Taught to Believe, From Childhood

Put another way, you've been taught to believe, just
like you were, in all likelihood, taught to believe in
Santa Claus. When you were a child, in all likelihood,
you were taught that the Santa Claus characters at
the stores were just Santa's helpers, that the 'real'
Santa Claus was to visit all good children's homes
on Christmas eve. Along with the Santa myth, you
were likely surrounded with a plethora of Santa myth
stories. You probably can remember watching TV
and seeing all that mythos played out, with adults
sanctifying/blessing (treating as real) the myths of

Tell me, honestly, doesn't the God myth along with
the associated God myths have the same so-called
'reality' as did the Santa myths before that myth-spell
was snapped by a friend or family member or acquaint-
ance or your own self-awareness that Santa did not
fit in with the nature of 'reality'?

Isn't the only difference between the God myths
and the Santa myths that you've found much in the
ways of admission by former Santa myth followers
that the Santa stories, every last one of them, are
myths (even though you and many Santa myth
doubters 'pretend' they're true when y'all are
around children) ...

... -but- with the God myths, you have a large cadre
of likeminded believers who perform rituals in big
buildings with lots of social functions and ceremon-
ies and myth-readings and sermons and incantations
and ... well, you see, going to a church or cathedral
must be, for you, just like believing in Santa was, for
most, when we were children.

The only difference between the God myths and
the Santa myths is that the God myths are clung to
by many, for life, for they are taught from childhood
that the God myths are their **only hope**, that
God can be their **best friend**, that to disbelieve
risks eternal damnation and is likely to make you
very unhappy in this life.

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Mind Control

Mind control, that's what you're submitting to, and
you refuse to let go of it because (see above) the
mythical nature of the entire show that has been
presented not only by religious figures, but by fam-
ily members and society at large, all of that makes
the myth seem, if you are unwilling to think about
it, 'real' simply by pretending (or, if you prefer, by
believing) that it is.

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Belief Compared to Doubt, Disbelief, Skepticism

The mythical nature of the entire show is revealed
only by a clear-minded, doubting, skeptical mind. If
one follows church doctrine and puts all doubt aside,
subordinating it to just believe no matter what, you
are following the same exact path that a child who
clings to belief in Santa Claus follows, even though,
as typically happens, a cousin or a friend or some
teenager has conveyed in no uncertain terms why
adults lie about Santa Claus, why Santa Claus is

Not likely you'll get much in the way of friends, family,
or persons in churches or cathedrals discussing the
mythical nature of the God stories. Why? 'Cause that
would cut to the very heart of their faith. Without blind
faith, religions would die. Blind faith + childhood brain-
washing is the feast upon which religions feed.

'Tis why religions are so firm in discouraging doubt
and disbelief, so loaded with threats against doubters
and disbelievers, and so thrilled by the concept called
blind faith.

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Reasonable Presentment of Alternatives?

A reasonable presentment of alternative views on
religious matters, seek that out next time you go to
church or a cathedral. Ponder all the times that alter-
natives to the God myths are presented in a respect-
ful and equal level as are the believe seductions. You
might even consider mentally counting the number
of times belief is promoted + the number of times
doubt and disbelief is discouraged.

Compare those figures to the number of times one
iota of respect for acquiescence to doubt and disbelief,
as an alternative to blind faith, is mentioned.

What you'll find is that belief encouragement and dis-
couragement of doubt and disbelief is pervasive.

What you'll also find is that the number of times doubt
and disbelief is mentioned, practically every (if not every)
time they are, they'll be mentioned as unpleasant risky
inferior options to the views expressed by the church.

- - -

Brainwashing and Propagandizing + Social Inducement
+ Welfare/Survival/Propagation of Church Dogma

In other words, your ability to actually think rationally
about such matters is, via the technique of brainwash-
ing -and- propagandizing, extinguished (or at least,
that's the intent of the church) every time you walk
through those church or cathedral doors.

That, + social inducement, + the welfare/survival/prop-
agation of church dogma is what the church is about,
to keep their myths afloat, and to demean and dismiss
any alternatives in which the church is *not* at play. Oh,
and via the 'altruism trick', they also use some funds to
help people with earthly needs, though typically, that's
designed to be done with church dogma an adjunct to
the help, the goal being to use the 'altruism trick' to
extend the influence of the church.

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