Do You Know There's a God
or do you merely believe there is one?
(Top Posts - Distance From Belief
in theism - 061901)

If you know there's a god, please explain your knowledge,
what it's based on, and why we should believe you or
accept your knowledge.

If you don't know there's a god, but instead, you
believe there is a god, please explain for us how your
belief differs from delusion/imagination and how your
belief is meritorious compared to innumerable beliefs
in other ultimate beings which don't mate to yours.

If you claim faith, doesn't your perspective fall under
the area of belief, not knowledge? If belief, why is your
belief of merit as you must admit that anyone can believe
anything, so either you're claiming your belief is veritable
and other beliefs are less so -or- you're claiming that any
and all beliefs have merit and therefore, whatever, just
believe something/anything, so long as it mates somehow
to your belief.

In other words, with the belief/faith thing, all you're doing
is claiming belief/faith is "the god" and whatever your belief
or faith is invested in is of far less consequence than is the
merit of merely having belief/faith in something.

For those of the belief/faith motif, do you comprehend how
anything can be placed there and how that invalidates your
belief/faith as superior to acceptance of empirical evidence?

Furthermore, don't you understand that your belief/faith
motif is merely based on assertions and claims, not evidence?

Don't you understand that anyone can claim anything, but
claiming it doesn't make it so?

Put another way, in terms which christians are likely to under-
stand, let's say I die and meet "the ultimate be-all end-all
thingie" and it asks me, "Why didn't you believe in me?"

Do you think that stating that "anyone can claim anything, so
how in the world could I possibly determine what was real
from what was delusion, when it came to supernatural claims?",
would hold any weight?

If I throw in "cancer-why?", "diabetes-why?", "parkinson's disease-why?", "depression-why?", "genetics absent from the bible-why?",
"lies in the bible-why?", "god-murder in the bible-why?", "allah-why?", "ignorance of science-why?", "silence from you-why?", "ignorance
from you-why?", "disregard for Chinese-why?", "disregard for most
of the world apart from the Jews-why?", "disdain for the
ability to think/reason/ explore/reveal-why?" . . .

What do think this ultimate be-all end-all thingie would respond
with? Guilt-trips? Ignorance of genetics? Ignorance of the influence
of stimuli on human behavior? What? Please do examine your faith
and tell me, what in the world would this ultimate be-all end-all
thingie respond with?

Nothing? Condemnation? Revulsion for the human mind?

If so, therein resides the emptiness and anti-humanity of your

If guilt-trips, therein resides the emptiness of your faith.

If tossing me into hell, therein resides the anti-humanism
and absurdity of your faith.

Faith as worthy or meritable?

I think not and I must say, in all honesty, humankind would
be best-served by leaving the mythical deceit and threats and
emptiness of faith in our past, and would be wise to live free
and vibrant in knowing that we're natural beings in a natural
world of wonder. Let's free ourselves from faith and, instead,
live for that which we know and that which we can know, in
this life, on this earth, in this time.

May we all live long (forever, if possible), and prosper, in a
natural world of wonder, with all humans for all humans being
the credo to live by, rather than fear of death/imaginary beings.

I love you all. As no god is my witness, we have so much more
in common than we do differences. Let's live together in peace
and love, and enjoy to the ultimate extent that is humanly possible
our time together in this world of wonder and mystery, knowing
full well that no god worth being with could hold a pro-human
and pro-love and pro-peace and pro-children and pro-nurturing
and caring philosophy against us, no way, no how.

- - -

As for our life on earth and the issues we all must deal with as
part of our natural existence in a natural world:

Let's look at prisons, for example, in no small part a reflection
and result of the religious influences upon humankind, to date ...

Should prisons be made to be very unpleasant places for all inmates
or should prisons be more unpleasant mating to the severity of the
crime, kind of a human effort to implement hell-on-earth for those
deemed unworthy of freedom on earth?

Most prisoners serve time for non-violent 'crimes' (such as smoking
a plant, of all things) and leave prison. For those prisoners, I suspect most would be more interested in resources devoted to insuring they
re-enter society in a manner in which they are likely to fit in than most would be to push them so far down they're not likely to ever recover.

As for hard-core criminals / lifers / and the like, what kind of prison would most suggest as the 'ideal'?

One should be aware that America imprisons a higher percentage of
its citizens than any country in the world, other than Russia. Hmmmm, makes one wonder, why is that?

Also of note, the U.S. has one of the

o highest murder rates,
o highest execution rates,
o highest gun-toting rates,
o highest imprisonment rates,
o highest crime rates,
o highest divorce rates,
o highest anti-evolution rates,
o highest church attendance rates,
o highest christianity rates ...

A nation more focused on power/authoritarianism/imprisoning/
condemning/punishing/fearing than it is focused on freedom/ love/prosperity for all?

A nation more focused on materialism/slavery to work/inordin-
ate profit for the few than it is focused on pleasure/quality of life/
equanimity/fairness/enjoyment of our one sure chance at it?

A nation of brainwashed followers of imaginary ultimate authority
beings (thank god?) and faiths based on ultimate punishment/reward
(thank god?) which Americans use as a model for how we live out
our time on earth?

A nation focused on preparation for death, with real reward for a
small minority and a life of labor/slavery to those in power by the
overwhelming majority, rather than an egalitarian celebration of life
for the many?

A nation of selfishness and greed rather than sharing and caring?

- - -

I caution you to think and ponder what I've written, rather than
resorting to the typical anecdotes of exceptions which folks point
to in order to perpetuate what must be, as of this moment, judged
to be, in my opinion, a pitiful failure or, at best, a faltering step away
from past insanities ...

We can do better ...

And the first step is admitting we've failed/faltered ...

And the next step is endeavoring, each and every one of us, to make
a better world, a better life, for the many, by virtue of knowing for
certain that more authority / more condemnation / more divisiveness /
more demonization is nothing but fuel for the fire in which we find

Instead of more fuel on the fire, more prisons, more cops, more
laws, we need more cool water of passion for peace, love, joy,
a sharing and caring society devoted to human kindness and health
and well-being and pleasure on this earth, at this time, in this life,
not as a respite from the pain of slavery, but instead, as the primary
reason for being, 24x7x365 (366 every leap year).

- - -