(Top Posts - Distance From Belief
in theism - 011701)
Is there a way out, for humankind?
Here are a few ideas:
- - -
1) We know that you can logic
/ reason your way out, but
that requires thinking / doubting and many / most are less
than willing to do that amongst peers / fellow members of
a tribe (whether it's the allah tribe, the god tribe, the hindu
tribe, the buddhist tribe, the state worship tribe, makes no
difference, pressure to fit in with the tribe makes thinking /
doubting unattractive for many / most).
- - -
2) What is faith in ultimate
goodies / terrible consequences
unseen, exactly? Is it not the template placed upon children /
society as an ultimate reward / positive reinforcement mechan-
ism and an ultimate punishment / condemnation / naysayer
Example: How many of our readers
ever feel guilty about
doubting in Shiva, Kama, Krishna, Allah, Isis, Mithras, Horus,
Zeus, Odin, or any super-being faith construct apart from
our culture / upbringing? On the other hand, how many feel
reticent about doubting the de facto christian faith constructs?
Our logic / reason justifies
our doubt, yet somehow it's diffi-
cult for most to express that doubt in the same manner /
level of comfort as we easily do regarding faiths apart from
Why? Simply put, we're part
of the christian tribe and there
are all sorts of peer pressures, financial pressures, mating
pressures associated with keeping your doubt about your
ultimate tribe conformity / authority template to yourself,
going along with your tribe.
Having evolved from chimpanzees,
creatures which to this
day have a hierarchical tribe head who has mating privileges
and food rights / control / power at the top of the tribe, we
carry forward those instincts into the modern age, with a
larger brain and larger reasoning skills, with extensive com-
munication skills, yet still tied back to an ultimately dominant
male as the head of our tribe.
That male, in the case of
religion, is god and our intuitive na-
ture makes denial of that supreme male a challenging task.
What can we replace that with, what can we make as a real
and viable pseudo-supreme male other than a god of ulti-
Note, among chimpanzees it
behooves you to be on the
good side of the ultimate male, a stance not unlike that of
the followers of religion who try to be on the good side of
their ultimate male, god.
A way for those of faith to
become the ultimate male, in
this life, is to claim god-contact - god-support - god-fellow-
ship, all reflections of chimpanzees' desire to be the ulti-
mate male either by force - overthrowing the ultimate male -
or submission, buddying up to the ultimate male.
Hmmmmmm. I know, persons of
religious faith would say
that we, the disbelievers, are the ones overthrowing the
ultimate male by declaring ourselves the ultimate male ...
ouch, might be right on the mark.
- - -
3) If our conscience, our
ability to tell the difference be-
tween right and wrong is socially / culturally and genetically
mixed with the ultimate supreme male authority concept
(and certainly, one must recognize that our pre-god form
placed the male head of the tribe at the top as the ultimate
authority) ... even having dropped that ultimate male author-
ity figure in our own minds, we still have our conscience
and we still have that genetic and social pressure to asso-
ciate conscience with an ultimate male authority figure ...
We don't need it in fact,
our logic and reason tells us so,
but our genetic / memetic proclivities, our conscience, when
deciding between right and wrong always uses the neurons
and pathways established in childhood, said pathways heav-
ily dependent on that ultimate authority figure, god in the case
of most in western culture ... this internal confusion mechan-
ism is what many of religious faith refer to when they speak
of humankind's need for god. It's a simple matter of evolu-
tion combined with social / cultural influences and the way
you were raised as a child.
- - -
4) Given 1-2-3, there needs
to be a way to deprogram our-
selves and pay more focus on the sociological / psycholog-
ical aspects of faith, as well as something doubters are
already quite good at, the logic / reason underpinning those
of us who are not of religious faith.
If someone already has a nifty
mate to 4, please share, as
discussing faith from a logic / reason standpoint seems to
fall short of addressing the human and natural tribe conform-
ance / worship of the ultimate supreme authority tendencies
which holds many people to the religious faith of their culture,
in varying degrees, despite its inability to mate to logic and
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