(Top Posts - Distance From Belief
in christianity - 050202)
The assertion at issue is that Jesus existed, some
say as a man, some say as a resurrected savior,
most in the western world choosing to credit him
with bringing a unique religious view to humankind,
despite many pro-human philosophies flourishing
prior to the advent of orthodox (Jesus as son
of god / savior) christianity.
gospels, being religious documents full of myth
combined with some places and people actually
around at the time the documents refer to, are not
considered historically relevant by any legitimate
gospel stories were based substantially on an
assemblage of religions and christs from other religions.
The Jesus character was combined with a plethora of
myths to form the orthodox christian faith, endorsed
by Constantine almost 300 years after Jesus died, had
he ever really lived.
have often stated that they cannot find a
historical Jesus. There is no historical Jesus to be found,
there is nothing but a mention of a Jesus by a few secular
sources and point in fact those mentions are easily under-
stood as reflections of orthodox christianity as well as
the christ mythos existing in other religions for centuries
prior to the writing of the gospel stories.
volumes have been written about a Jesus based
on guesses and fabrication, applied to a caricature of
what a savior-type might have been like had he actually
lived at the time. Pure fantasy, just like all the christ mythos
present in the gospels, usually written with a more human
face than are the gospel stories.
western societies consist of many persons who
*want* a Jesus to exist, therein resides the source audi-
ence for the desire to "create" a Jesus of history, even
though there is no historical Jesus to be found. Therein
resides the temptation for authors to place fantasies upon
a human and construct elaborate stories around a man
for which evidence is all-but nonexistent.
all, once a myth seeps deeply into a society,
it is tempting to go along with it rather than critically
address the lack of evidence for the myth being any-
thing other than a myth.
muslim societies for reference on bowing to Mecca
5 times per day without one iota of evidence that allah
is anything but myth. It's even written into law and deeply
entwined with the law, the worship of allah thing, in muslim
societies. Try bringing up doubt regarding allah or moham-
med's existence in many muslim societies and it may cost
you your life or your freedom ...
Hearken back to the way it was in the western world
regarding a Jesus, for over 1,000 years, disbelieve (or
believe in the 'wrong' way) and it might cost you your
life or your freedom, and therein resides the seeds for
the deceit that undergirds the Jesus myth machine that
promotes the notion that doubt regarding a Jesus man
or savior is just not de rigueur.
pro-Jesus as real crowd maintains their position
regardless of the dearth of evidence that anyone remotely
resembling the Jesus of the gospels ever existed as any-
thing but an assemblage of myths placed on an imaginary
religious figure and the events going on in the day and age
the imaginary religious figure would have existed, if he
was anything other than imaginary.
a Jesus remotely resembling the Jesus of the gospels
actually existed, the questions surrounding him would have
been quite extensive, far beyond the simplistic mythos
present in the christian gospels, as iterated below:
Inquiry - questions to Jesus by co-inhabitants of
the planet ... (what we would have liked to have seen in the
gospels - contemporaneous writings addressing the follow-
ing issues) ...
does life appear so devoid of gods, struggling against
pain and disease and unmentionable horrors, if god is so
good and all -or- is god really a spoiled child and you are
merely trying to cover-up for its shortcomings?
you human or god?
part of god are you?
should we believe you're god or a son of god?
birth, what is that all about - remember anything?
as god, -or- god as human, please explain.
you say you're a son of a god, yet what is it, this
god thing, that you say you're a son of?
is a human, like what causes disease and why
does god inflict humans with disease?
there's this Adam and Eve spin on creation, how
real is that, really?
know, the pentateuch is loaded with killing and
god saying kill-this, rape-that, stone-the other, tell me,
what's up with all that violence, on the part of your daddy?
heard mention that there are a lot of christ claimants
floating about these days, tell me, what makes you the real
deal and the others just contenders without the contact that
you claim to have to the almighty creator of all?
am I allowed to doubt in your godhood without being
smited by a lightning bolt?
hear there's this immortal damnation thing floating about
in religious circles-what's that all about, really, and can you
do anything, like, to talk your daddy into squelching that
how big is the world, really - don't pull my leg, here,
I'm talkin' actual cold hard facts, got any?
has it that god chose the Jews - why? After all, a
god of all humanity wouldn't pick a fave, would he?
50 years ago an earthquake shook Syria like you
wouldn't believe - what was that all about?
Pentateuch has this Noah's ark, Moses, Abraham,
a talking snake, and all sorts of fantastical stories-is that
for real or is that merely an assembly of myths to promote
power and control over people who, let's face it, would
believe most any superstition foisted upon them by the
so-called "holy" scribes who you are really into dissing
look up at the night sky and see all these shining things.
What are they, really?
has it that the earth is flat and god floats this golden
bulb over us every day - is that really how god does it?
big is all of god's creation and where do we fit in?
the shining things we see the end of god's creation? If
not, what's beyond them?
beneath earth's surface?
what's that all about? Does god make babies or is
it, instead, something that happens the same way that goats
off the end of baby boys' penises - why do you think
god was so into that, in the Pentateuch? Is it possible that the
Pentateuch was just made up stuff, do you think? If so, if it's
just made up stuff, why are you pretending you're the son of
something that's just made up stuff?
and women, are we to treat them as equals with
men or are we to hold them in the same low esteem as has
been traditional 'til now, you know, the way they were treated
in the Pentateuch?
Romans - what's that all about, for if god cares about
the Jews, why does he let the Romans prance about in his
so-called holy land as if god doesn't even exist? Same goes
for all the past conquerors of the Jews - I mean, really, with
a friend like god, who needs enemies?
fleeing here, Jews fleeing there, I mean, come on,
even you saw the Jews getting obliterated by Herod right
next to your precious Nazareth (though some say you were
born in Bethlehem) -why believe in a god who chooses to
allow torture and death to his own so-called "chosen"
know you're into magic tricks, why don't you do
something really impressive, like turn the Romans into
statues or something? Come on, you can do it, give us
a quickie and hey, if you want, you can change 'em right
back, but when you do, make 'em all nicey-nice, you
know, just so they'll stop their attacks on the Jews.
with all the power of god, why do you act like a
human without a clue about the important things of life,
like offering humans real solutions rather than magic tricks
for health problems ?
you're a god, do something impressive, like laying a
document on us describing all that god knows - surely you
can help us out here in this harsh world. What's that? You
don't have anything to help us out other than philosophies
and parts of religions long in use elsewhere?
doing a little cross-cultural research, here, and I've
discovered that your virgin birth story and wise men story
and, well, to be perfectly honest, a lot of the stories circu-
lating about you are mere copies of earlier pagan / gnostic /
mithraic / zarathustraic myths, as well as other religions
regarding christs and all ... so, tell me, why do their myths
mate to your supposed reality, what's that all about?
the supposed crucifixion/rise from the dead act]
So, I hear Thomas didn't believe you rose from the dead.
Kind of hard to believe you'd actually expect humans to
believe you are a risen savior when one of your closest
followers didn't buy it. So, you showed your punctured
hand to Thomas? What do you plan to show to all those
not present at the puncture-unveiling? What? Nothing?
Well then, why the hell do you demand they believe that
you were a god (or son of god, whatever, take your pick)
or else they'll fry in the lake of fire forever? A bit on the
extreme side of anti-humanism, don't you think, maybe?
well, just a short journey down what co-inhabitants of
the planet might be curious about were the Jesus of the
gospels to have actually walked on the planet ... being that
the Jesus of the gospels is a myth of the Roman empire,
let's face it, the whole show is for naught, an empty egress
from rational and skeptical inquiry into the suspension of
what would have been the nature of doubt surrounding
such a being were he to have actually existed and come
anywhere near attempting to pass himself off as a deity
or son of a deity, Jewish or otherwise ...
See the Nag Hammadi documents for a clue of the
superstitious nature of the christ stories circulating about
in the day and age when a Jesus (of gospel fame) suppos-
edly existed ...
with a critical analysis of the manner in which
the Roman empire "created" christianity as most know it,
choosing from amongst an array of christian religions,
extinguishing paganism, creating the "christian" bible as
we know it, and destroying documents which would
support doubt regarding the "new made-by-Romans
faith", in the 4th century C.E. ...
put, the origins for present-day christianity resulted
from two significant elements in ancient times:
the power of the promise of immortality (a popular notion
before, during, and after the Romans chose the texts to place
into a document called the bible and voted on the modern
basis for christianity in the 4th century CE) and
the efforts of the power of the Roman state to make a
particular kind of christianity the state religion (said efforts
resulting in the destruction of competing religions as well as
the killing of many non-christians and many christians [after
325 A.D.] who practiced types of christianity deviating from
the Roman-blessed one) ...
these factors to the christian focus on those chris-
tians who died prior to Roman christianization (often ex-
pressed regarding christians who died when the Romans
were pagans) juxtaposed against scant mention (by chris-
tians) of the christians of competing forms of christianity
(and the non-christians) who died after christianity was
combined with the power of the Roman empire, as the
official state religion ...
and then, perhaps, the fog will clear and you'll come to
understand that the winner of the contest was merely the
belief system most adept at combining the power of the
promise of immortality with the power of the state and the
power of the sword (and other methods of violence), one
amongst many competitors, all superstitious in origins /
nature, all equally worthy of placement in the category
known as "religious myth".
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
pertinent references of interest:
"... Evemerism, named after Evemeras, a 4th
Century B.C.E. Greek philosopher who devel-
oped the idea that, rather than being mytholog-
ical creatures as was accepted by the reigning
intellectuals, the gods of old were in fact historical
characters, kings, emperors and heroes whose
exploits were then deified. ..."
Big a Part Did Genes Play
in the Gospels? (050102)
"... if the gospels are anything close to a path worth
following, if the gospels are anything close to truth
and worth, why are they oblivious to the role genes
play in human behavior? ..."
Friday / Easter ...
Reality / Freedom? (050102)
"... religion provides naught but ancient paths to
delusion and empty, unfulfilled, false promises
which lead to activities deleterious to human
welfare, in all too many cases, in no small part
due to the blind devotion of those of faith to
ancient mindsets ..."
Archaeology refutes the Bible's
claim to history (043002)
"The following provides a detailed analysis of a book
which provides details on why the fundamentalist/
literalist interpretation of the pentateuch, the christian
bible, and the quran, fall far short when it comes to
the historical claims made in those documents. ..."
"In another thread, a poster recently submitted
a challenge to my doubt/disbelief regarding the
literalist interpretation of the Jesus character
of the new testamyth ... to which I replied as
of God(s) - Excerpts from
'Are we hardwired for God?' (020702)
"... Pascal Boyer tells us in his opening chapter that
'religion is about the existence and causal powers of
nonobservable entities and agencies.' He doesn't
appear to have in mind things like gravity or magne-
tism or radio waves. ... his primary concern is with
the question of how we are to account for beliefs that
involve the attribution of conscious agency to beings
other than humans and animals of the normal and
familiar kind. ...."
Jesus Doubt File (022801)
"For consideration of the likelihood that Jesus
was a mythical creation -or- an overly ambitious
series of creative extrapolations pertaining to
a human who, if he even existed, had neither
divine nor extraordinary attributes anywhere
near those credited to him in the gospels,
review the following ... "