One Ticket to Heaven and Hell, Please ...
(Top Posts - Distance From Belief
in theism - 010101)

... Why not?

Boom - it's travel to Heaven and Hell day,

whoosh - we're off to see the wizard, the wonderful wizard
of heaven and hell ...

Heaven - hey - far out ...

Hell - bummer, dude, too hot to handle.

whoosh - we're back to earth.

Now, I know quite a few who are into the heavy-weight
free will, omnipotent, omniscient, etc... discussions on
god/heaven/hell, but

I ask you,

For the man/woman on the street,

For the children,

The above scenario,

If there was a 'loving' god, why not?

Easy to do, you have free will to choose between heaven
or hell, really, and if all chose heaven, would that be such
a bad deal (aside from the slavery to a being willing to tor-
ture beings forever and the likelihood that, hey, you'd pro-
bably end up in hell eventually, anyway, 'cause who could
trust a creature who'd threaten you with such a thing)?

If there is no god, that explains it, can't happen because
all the stuff is made up ...

If there is a god, hey, easy to do, nothing to it, whoosh -
whoosh ...

Now, being that the whoosh - whoosh deal ain't in the bible
and being that nary a soul can justify the lack of such a
scenario by virtue of bible stuff, all we're left with is ...

You got it, humans explaining why god doesn't give us free
will (like in a real choice between two real things) on heaven
or hell but does give us free will on lying/killing/raping/des-
troying ...

Seems his/her/its/their priorities are a bit out of whack -or-
god/heaven/hell/christ/satan - the entire lot of 'em are inven-
tions of human imagination.

What say you, yea or nay, and why, pray tell, enslave your-
self to such an obviously false, illogical, irrational, non-sensi-
cal concept as an invisible deity who forces you to 'choose'
based on 'no evidence'/'nothing other than claims/threats',
when ...

whoosh - whoosh, any *loving* god could/would create a
system of really free will for the heaven-hell choice.

You say, well we do have a choice ... you can choose to go
to something which you have no evidence for -or- you can
choose to go to something which you have no evidence for.
That's a choice?

If I told you believe I'm 10 foot tall, and you'll get a million
dollars -or- disbelieve and I'll set you on fire and make it burn
real slowly so you suffer incredible pain for as long as possible,
would you

a) consider that a threat,

b) ask for proof,

c) say
you believe just in case it would garner you a million
dollarsor just in case you might burn and suffer horrible

d) call the cops, or

e) call me a kook?

Wouldn't you think, man, that's crazy?

If you chose b, would I say - nah, to have 'free will', I must
not provide *any* evidence of my claim. Sorry, but if I pro-
vided evidence of my claim, you would be denied 'free will'?
I think not. Clearly, if I provide evidence of my claim, you
have a choice and you would 'choose' to believe, in essence,
becoming a slave to my demand to believe and get rich or
disbelieve and suffer horrible pain.

You see, whether or not evidence is provided is beside the
point, if the conditions exist as asserted, you're screwed, for
I have determined you will either be rich or suffer horrible
pain and to get rich you must be a slave to someone who has
threatened you with horrible pain.

Whether I blame that on you or not, it doesn't matter. Does it
make more sense for me to tell you you're evil and despicable
and worthy of torment *unless* you believe I am 10 foot tall,
with no evidence, by the way? Absurd, isn't it? Despicable
and anti-human - outrageous - criminally insane.

Having set the rules, I must take responsibility for the conse-
quences of my rules - if I provide no evidence for my claim/
threats, I'm a despicable creature who deserves to suffer the
worst fate imaginable. If I provide evidence of my claim/
threat, I'm still a despicable creature who deserves to suffer
the worst fate imaginable.

You see, the crime there is not the person who refuses to be-
lieve that I'm 10 foot tall, the crime is that I have created a
threat scenario in which I am a criminal no matter what hap-
pens, no matter what evidence, no matter what exists. I am
a criminal because I have threatened another human being
with pain/horror.

No amount of goodies for belief can offset the hideousness
of threatening someone with torment, and providing evidence
does *not* reduce the hideousness of the threat nor does it
force you to like accepting the million dollars.

Therein lies the fatal flaw of faith - bow to an evil deity - accept
that you *deserve* eternal torment/death - you've *earned* it -
and believe in god/christ/heaven/hell/devils/angels (a 10 foot
tall me) and go to heaven (million dollars) -or- burn in hell/die
(burn slowly and painfully for as long as possible)

-and- IT'S YOUR FAULT if you don't bend over and enslave
yourself to god (a 10 foot tall me, which, by the way, doesn't

- - -

If you lose the faith, chances are increased that you'll be able
to appreciate the sanity of living life free of faith, and you'll
be happier, you'll be freer, and your children and succeeding
generations will be free, finally, truly free of the risks inherent
in blind faith in imaginary beings.

May humans bless you and be with you in our mysterious jour-
ney ... as the earth circles the sun ... as the solar system circles
the galaxy ... as we continue on in hope - peace - joy - love -
a oneness with nature and with each other - seeking to become
all that we can be - at this time - in this life - on this earth, and
beyond ...

- - -