All That Is, All That Was, All That Ever Will Be?
  
   
   
   
   
 
 
 

All That Is, All That Was, All That Ever Will Be? Video
(Top Posts - Science - 050208; updated 031210)

Someone wrote:

> I think you missed the point. If there is no God, then it does
> not matter if life ends on this earth because it will eventually
> anyway. Either way, life will end on this earth.

Immortality?

Life's end doesn't matter if said end
does not result in meeting a super-
being (called God) that will deal you
your immortal fate in an 'afterlife'
event?

Immortality is required for anything
to matter (when speaking of the fu-
ture)?

So, let's say one is in 'heaven', and
one day, I dunno, some entity decides
to terminate that dude, you're saying
that dude's end means the, oh I dunno,
trillions of years the dude spent in
'heaven' before being offed didn't
matter?

- - -

Immortal Suffering?

Then again, some of the religious
cling to the notion that most folks
will suffer forever, in 'hell', so once
again, I must ask the question, does
that add value to this life 'cause most,
per the religious, will be cursed with
immortal suffering?

Another angle, from the religious who
believe an immortal oblivion is the
deal for most (for disbelievers and for
believers in 'wrong' religions), and
from the non-religious who think that
this life is our one and only chance at
it, does that actually and evidentially
diminish the value of this one and only
certain life, a life in which the threat
of immortal suffering is not believed
in?

- - -

Oblivion?

In any case, oblivion sure beats im-
mortal suffering, that's for sure.

When it comes to oblivion, I think
you would admit that as highly likely
as that may be, forever is a long time,
the actual nature of the expansion of
'our' space-time continuum, unknowns
remain, multiple dimensions and uni-
verses open up intrigueing possibili-
ties, and until we know all there is to
know, which basically would include
the totality of all that is, all that ever
was, all that ever will be, -or- at least
until we know far more than we know
now, I submit we'll fall short of hav-
ing absolute evidential confidence in
the immortality of oblivion.

At least that's true in my case.

- - -

Pleasant Immortality Hope?

As for a pleasant immortality, you
don't have to give up hope for that
just because you don't happen to fol-
low some ancient religion. Really,
you don't. You can, if you wish, give
up hope, but you don't have to unless
(see above) you're confident enough
to proclaim, as fact, that the discon-
tinuation of each of us encapsulates
the totality of possibilities apart from
religion.

I would submit that the value in this
life, for certain, comes from making
it last as long and pleasantly as pos-
sible in this natural realm we know
exists, and to the extent that anything
else happens after this life is over,
one cannot possibly know (yet) either
how long or how pleasant or how un-
pleasant that would be.

Certainly, ancient religions (which
have all the appearance of myth) offer
nothing but promises and seductions
and threats when it comes to immor-
tality.

One can hope for a pleasant immortal-
ity, certainly, though I would suggest
that divorcing such hope from magic
beings -and- ancient religions would
be well-advised. You might call that
hope without the limitations -and-
the anti-humanism -and- the threats
of ancient religions, that certainly
seems to be something anyone can
hope for, if willing to put aside the
fact that there's no evidence that such
a fate exists for anyone.

As to what impact that would have on
this, our only sure chance to experience
life, when divorced from all the brain-
washing entailed in ancient religions
which call their hope/threats 'holy',
which try to convince young children
that afterlife places/consequences are
a reality, just have faith?

I would submit you don't need all that
to have hope, and would be better off
without all that, if hope is something
you desire, but that's just my opinion,
and many think calling something 'holy',
and believing in magic beings is both
*desired* and *required* to have any
'real' hope.

I differ with that opinion, though I must
admit, my hope is not based on any im-
mortality experience, or any evidence,
it's merely based on whatever it is (pro-
bably, mostly in my genes) that makes
me want to exist forever.

It also might be the by-product of having
been raised in a religious environment in
which I was taught (for the first 18 years
of my life) that the particular religion I
was raised in represented ultimate real-
ity, a teaching which I oft-times strug-
gled with and later rejected (the parts
regarding supernatural activities, the
anti-human parts, the threats, the down-
sides, most of the historical claims).

However, the pleasant immortality
parts, even though I don't believe in
ancient religions, or Gods, or devils,
or spirits, or heaven, or hell, I still cling
to the hope that within the natural realm,
a pleasant continuance may be part of
the picture, however unlikely that may
be.

That may simply be more reflective of
my wishes and dreams and certainly,
I haven't found any scientific evidence
that such a continuation is possible,
but then again, I have yet to locate a
definitive evidential denial of such a
naturalistic possibility. If I do, I'll re-
port on it, and I must admit, I haven't
looked that hard to find it, yet, either
scientific evidence for or against such
a possibility.

That hope also might be the by-product
of the language and culture I am deeply
influenced by, the many myths and books
and life experiences that are part of the
'programming' that I've been impacted
by.

- - -

Totality of Reality?

But back to speaking of whatever it
is that is the totality of reality, and
what may happen in the known realms
we exist in ...

Scientific advances offer enormous
possibilities, not only regarding the
human condition on earth, but regard-
ing what may very well be our suc-
cessors, a combination of biology
and technology far surpassing pre-
sent day human limitations.

Beyond that, earth is merely home
for, cosmologically speaking, a snip-
pet of time, and moving beyond this
particular location, that would offer
a much greater opportunity for maxi-
mizing the chances for continuing
existence for human successors men-
tioned above.

[all this assumes, of course, that we
have enough time to take advantage
of scientific advances, as the risks of
extinction in a natural environment,
not to mention the risks of extinction
due to human acts, may be prohibi-
tively high]

- - -

Opportunity to extend life / Reflections
on Cosmological Time Scale

Reflecting on the cosmological cal-
endar mentioned below, the oppor-
tunity to extend life, for our successors,
may exist far beyond the end of earth,
for at least 10,000 cosmological years
(a cosmological year = ~14 billion
years) when only low mass stars are
considered, and far beyond that -if-
the ability to extract energy from
white dwarfs is taken into account.

And, even -if- human successors
chose to confine themselves to our
particular solar system, for what-
ever reason (though it's beyond me
why they would choose to do so),
the sun will be around for quite
awhile after earth is gone (on the
cosmological time scale, a day =
38,356,164 years), and not only
do we have 31 of those days left
before earth ends, but we have
47 days after that before the sun
ends, so ...

... since, on that cosmological time
scale, an hour = 1,598,173 years,
a minute = 26,636 years, and a
second = almost 444 years, you
and I have been around for about
the last 1/10th of one second on
the cosmological time scale, give
or take a few hundredths of a
second ...

... that should help to put it all
into perspective.

- - -

Going further back in time, the
following article suggests there
was a period of time between
when human ancestors split from
the chimpanzee line, and when
human ancestors stopped breed-
ing with chimpanzees:
  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4991470.stm

Excerpts:

... A detailed analysis of human and
chimp DNA suggests the lines finally
diverged less than 5.4 million years
ago. The finding ... is about 1-2
million years later than the fossils
have indicated. ... its results hint at
the possibility that interbreeding
occurred between the two lines for
thousands, even millions, of years.

- - - end excerpts - - -

On the following cosmological time
scale? Human ancestors stopped breed-
ing with chimpanzees slightly after
8:37 PM on December 31.

- - -

Cosmological Calendar

Just saw an episode of "The Universe",
"Cosmic Apocalypse", on the history
channel. Very interesting. They used
a calendar to discuss the events that
have occurred since our particular
space-time continuum came into be-
ing. Here's where we stand when
looked at from that perspective (view-
able in part 3 of the videos below):

A period of ~14 billion years com-
pressed into one calendar year in
the following:

January 1 -- expansion of our particu-
lar space-time continuum.

January 31 -- Milky Way galaxy formed.

August 1 -- Our solar system formed.

August 16 -- Life on earth began.

December 31 -- Humans arrived, very
late in the day, close to midnight as a
matter of fact.

The future?

January 31 -- Earth becomes inhospitable,
all life on earth ends -or- departs for loca-
tions elsewhere.

May 17 -- Sun death.

For up to 10,000 of these cosmic years (one
cosmic year = ~14 billion years), low mass
stars continue.

Then, what happens in this particular space-
time continuum?

The degenerate era ensues, and any remaining
life would have to extract energy from white
dwarf stars, none of which would be emitting
light. Over time, millions of black holes
would dominate the universe, and eventually,
all matter and energy would degenerate.

Time slows. Protons won't exist. Any living
entity would have to live at an incredibly
slow rate. A thought would take trillions
of years.

After all black holes have evaporated away,
everything in terms of matter & energy we
know of is gone, including atoms themselves.

Quantum physics dominates, explaining the
behavior of particles. With enough time,
any kind of quantum fluctuation can form,
even one that can seem impossible. One of
these random fluctuations can change the
fabric of space itself.

One part of space can witness the formation
of a bubble, and that bubble would spread
throughout the space around it. A phase
transition would occur. Some of these
quantum fluctuations can give rise to de-
tached portions of space, dimensions that
can branch off from ours to create a new
universe.

Perhaps a quantum fluctuation gave rise
to our own space-time continuum (see
January 1 on the calendar above).


(Part 1 of 5) The Universe - Cosmic Apocalypse
Big Crunch (brief mention of Big Chill / Big Rip)




And so it goes, has gone, and will continue
to go, with or without 'us', forever, per-
haps forever in dimensions, in universes,
in time, in the past, in the future, in the
present.


(Part 2 of 5) The Universe - Cosmic Apocalypse
Big Rip / Big Chill / Law of Thermodynamics




And we, all of us, are part of this grand
and incomprehensible everywhere every-
when, and in that, I see a fantastic oppor-
tunity to explore, to learn more, to do
more, to be all that one can be, given
the limitations and restrictions we our
currently burdened by.


(Part 3 of 5) The Universe - Cosmic Apocalypse
Big Chill / Red Dwarfs / Cosmological Calendar /
White Dwarfs / Degenerate Era




As for life & hardships, to the extent
humankind can defeat them, excellent.
To the extent that they overwhelm and
subdue us, not good, and therein resides
the quest to maximize the good, and to
overcome as many of the hardships as
we can.


(Part 4 of 5) The Universe - Cosmic Apocalypse
Degenerate Era / Black Hole Era




As for life, and what makes it worth living,
in its better moments, common knowledge
is that sharing, caring, giving, loving, enter-
taining, learning, exploring, enjoying, all
that and more are there, and among those
who view themselves as pro-humanists,
there's additional value in making the most
for the many for as long as is pleasantly
possible.


(Part 5 of 5) The Universe - Cosmic Apocalypse
Dark Era / Ice Age / Quantum Theory /
Bubbles (Phase Transitions) / Multiple Universes /
Gateways to Other Universes?




- - -