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All That Is, All That
Was, All That Ever Will Be? > I think you missed the point. If there is no God, then it does > not matter if life ends on this earth because it will eventually > anyway. Either way, life will end on this earth. Immortality? Life's end doesn't matter if said end does not result in meeting a super- being (called God) that will deal you your immortal fate in an 'afterlife' event? Immortality is required for anything to matter (when speaking of the fu- ture)? So, let's say one is in 'heaven', and one day, I dunno, some entity decides to terminate that dude, you're saying that dude's end means the, oh I dunno, trillions of years the dude spent in 'heaven' before being offed didn't matter? - - - Immortal Suffering? Then again, some of the religious cling to the notion that most folks will suffer forever, in 'hell', so once again, I must ask the question, does that add value to this life 'cause most, per the religious, will be cursed with immortal suffering? Another angle, from the religious who believe an immortal oblivion is the deal for most (for disbelievers and for believers in 'wrong' religions), and from the non-religious who think that this life is our one and only chance at it, does that actually and evidentially diminish the value of this one and only certain life, a life in which the threat of immortal suffering is not believed in? - - - Oblivion? In any case, oblivion sure beats im- mortal suffering, that's for sure. When it comes to oblivion, I think you would admit that as highly likely as that may be, forever is a long time, the actual nature of the expansion of 'our' space-time continuum, unknowns remain, multiple dimensions and uni- verses open up intrigueing possibili- ties, and until we know all there is to know, which basically would include the totality of all that is, all that ever was, all that ever will be, -or- at least until we know far more than we know now, I submit we'll fall short of hav- ing absolute evidential confidence in the immortality of oblivion. At least that's true in my case. - - - Pleasant Immortality Hope? As for a pleasant immortality, you don't have to give up hope for that just because you don't happen to fol- low some ancient religion. Really, you don't. You can, if you wish, give up hope, but you don't have to unless (see above) you're confident enough to proclaim, as fact, that the discon- tinuation of each of us encapsulates the totality of possibilities apart from religion. I would submit that the value in this life, for certain, comes from making it last as long and pleasantly as pos- sible in this natural realm we know exists, and to the extent that anything else happens after this life is over, one cannot possibly know (yet) either how long or how pleasant or how un- pleasant that would be. Certainly, ancient religions (which have all the appearance of myth) offer nothing but promises and seductions and threats when it comes to immor- tality. One can hope for a pleasant immortal- ity, certainly, though I would suggest that divorcing such hope from magic beings -and- ancient religions would be well-advised. You might call that hope without the limitations -and- the anti-humanism -and- the threats of ancient religions, that certainly seems to be something anyone can hope for, if willing to put aside the fact that there's no evidence that such a fate exists for anyone. As to what impact that would have on this, our only sure chance to experience life, when divorced from all the brain- washing entailed in ancient religions which call their hope/threats 'holy', which try to convince young children that afterlife places/consequences are a reality, just have faith? I would submit you don't need all that to have hope, and would be better off without all that, if hope is something you desire, but that's just my opinion, and many think calling something 'holy', and believing in magic beings is both *desired* and *required* to have any 'real' hope. I differ with that opinion, though I must admit, my hope is not based on any im- mortality experience, or any evidence, it's merely based on whatever it is (pro- bably, mostly in my genes) that makes me want to exist forever. It also might be the by-product of having been raised in a religious environment in which I was taught (for the first 18 years of my life) that the particular religion I was raised in represented ultimate real- ity, a teaching which I oft-times strug- gled with and later rejected (the parts regarding supernatural activities, the anti-human parts, the threats, the down- sides, most of the historical claims). However, the pleasant immortality parts, even though I don't believe in ancient religions, or Gods, or devils, or spirits, or heaven, or hell, I still cling to the hope that within the natural realm, a pleasant continuance may be part of the picture, however unlikely that may be. That may simply be more reflective of my wishes and dreams and certainly, I haven't found any scientific evidence that such a continuation is possible, but then again, I have yet to locate a definitive evidential denial of such a naturalistic possibility. If I do, I'll re- port on it, and I must admit, I haven't looked that hard to find it, yet, either scientific evidence for or against such a possibility. That hope also might be the by-product of the language and culture I am deeply influenced by, the many myths and books and life experiences that are part of the 'programming' that I've been impacted by. - - - Totality of Reality? But back to speaking of whatever it is that is the totality of reality, and what may happen in the known realms we exist in ... Scientific advances offer enormous possibilities, not only regarding the human condition on earth, but regard- ing what may very well be our suc- cessors, a combination of biology and technology far surpassing pre- sent day human limitations. Beyond that, earth is merely home for, cosmologically speaking, a snip- pet of time, and moving beyond this particular location, that would offer a much greater opportunity for maxi- mizing the chances for continuing existence for human successors men- tioned above. [all this assumes, of course, that we have enough time to take advantage of scientific advances, as the risks of extinction in a natural environment, not to mention the risks of extinction due to human acts, may be prohibi- tively high] - - - Opportunity to extend life / Reflections on Cosmological Time Scale Reflecting on the cosmological cal- endar mentioned below, the oppor- tunity to extend life, for our successors, may exist far beyond the end of earth, for at least 10,000 cosmological years (a cosmological year = ~14 billion years) when only low mass stars are considered, and far beyond that -if- the ability to extract energy from white dwarfs is taken into account. And, even -if- human successors chose to confine themselves to our particular solar system, for what- ever reason (though it's beyond me why they would choose to do so), the sun will be around for quite awhile after earth is gone (on the cosmological time scale, a day = 38,356,164 years), and not only do we have 31 of those days left before earth ends, but we have 47 days after that before the sun ends, so ... ... since, on that cosmological time scale, an hour = 1,598,173 years, a minute = 26,636 years, and a second = almost 444 years, you and I have been around for about the last 1/10th of one second on the cosmological time scale, give or take a few hundredths of a second ... ... that should help to put it all into perspective. - - - Going further back in time, the following article suggests there was a period of time between when human ancestors split from the chimpanzee line, and when human ancestors stopped breed- ing with chimpanzees: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4991470.stm Excerpts: ... A detailed analysis of human and chimp DNA suggests the lines finally diverged less than 5.4 million years ago. The finding ... is about 1-2 million years later than the fossils have indicated. ... its results hint at the possibility that interbreeding occurred between the two lines for thousands, even millions, of years. - - - end excerpts - - - On the following cosmological time scale? Human ancestors stopped breed- ing with chimpanzees slightly after 8:37 PM on December 31. - - - Cosmological Calendar Just saw an episode of "The Universe", "Cosmic Apocalypse", on the history channel. Very interesting. They used a calendar to discuss the events that have occurred since our particular space-time continuum came into be- ing. Here's where we stand when looked at from that perspective (view- able in part 3 of the videos below): A period of ~14 billion years com- pressed into one calendar year in the following: January 1 -- expansion of our particu- lar space-time continuum. January 31 -- Milky Way galaxy formed. August 1 -- Our solar system formed. August 16 -- Life on earth began. December 31 -- Humans arrived, very late in the day, close to midnight as a matter of fact. The future? January 31 -- Earth becomes inhospitable, all life on earth ends -or- departs for loca- tions elsewhere. May 17 -- Sun death. For up to 10,000 of these cosmic years (one cosmic year = ~14 billion years), low mass stars continue. Then, what happens in this particular space- time continuum? The degenerate era ensues, and any remaining life would have to extract energy from white dwarf stars, none of which would be emitting light. Over time, millions of black holes would dominate the universe, and eventually, all matter and energy would degenerate. Time slows. Protons won't exist. Any living entity would have to live at an incredibly slow rate. A thought would take trillions of years. After all black holes have evaporated away, everything in terms of matter & energy we know of is gone, including atoms themselves. Quantum physics dominates, explaining the behavior of particles. With enough time, any kind of quantum fluctuation can form, even one that can seem impossible. One of these random fluctuations can change the fabric of space itself. One part of space can witness the formation of a bubble, and that bubble would spread throughout the space around it. A phase transition would occur. Some of these quantum fluctuations can give rise to de- tached portions of space, dimensions that can branch off from ours to create a new universe. Perhaps a quantum fluctuation gave rise to our own space-time continuum (see January 1 on the calendar above). (Part 1 of 5) The Universe - Cosmic Apocalypse Big Crunch (brief mention of Big Chill / Big Rip) And so it goes, has gone, and will continue to go, with or without 'us', forever, per- haps forever in dimensions, in universes, in time, in the past, in the future, in the present. (Part 2 of 5) The Universe - Cosmic Apocalypse Big Rip / Big Chill / Law of Thermodynamics And we, all of us, are part of this grand and incomprehensible everywhere every- when, and in that, I see a fantastic oppor- tunity to explore, to learn more, to do more, to be all that one can be, given the limitations and restrictions we our currently burdened by. (Part 3 of 5) The Universe - Cosmic Apocalypse Big Chill / Red Dwarfs / Cosmological Calendar / White Dwarfs / Degenerate Era As for life & hardships, to the extent humankind can defeat them, excellent. To the extent that they overwhelm and subdue us, not good, and therein resides the quest to maximize the good, and to overcome as many of the hardships as we can. (Part 4 of 5) The Universe - Cosmic Apocalypse Degenerate Era / Black Hole Era As for life, and what makes it worth living, in its better moments, common knowledge is that sharing, caring, giving, loving, enter- taining, learning, exploring, enjoying, all that and more are there, and among those who view themselves as pro-humanists, there's additional value in making the most for the many for as long as is pleasantly possible. (Part 5 of 5) The Universe - Cosmic Apocalypse Dark Era / Ice Age / Quantum Theory / Bubbles (Phase Transitions) / Multiple Universes / Gateways to Other Universes? - - -
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